ask theory, fact-checking, purple romero, misinformation, disinformation, fake news

Hosted by EIC Mikael Angelo Francisco, Ask Theory shines the spotlight on Pinoy scientific brilliance, in a fun and entertaining “kwentuhan” format. Each episode of Ask Theory  features a Pinoy scientist from one of the various scientific disciplines. In a very casual conversation, guests explain what they do in simple terms, as well as share their fascinating stories: how they got into science, the challenges they face, what motivates them to pursue their fields, what future scientists from the Philippines can look forward to, and so much more.

Episode 32: Misinformation vs. Disinformation vs. Fake News: Ano Ang Pinagkaiba?

This episode features Purple Romero, a fact-checking journalist based in Hong Kong. Her articles on health, environment, and gender issues have been published on international websites such as Vice, SCMP, Foreign Affairs, Mongabay, Channel News Asia, and Agence France-Presse.

We talked about the history of fake news, the difference between misinformation and disinformation, why people create and spread false information, the tools and skills of a fact-checking journalist, tips for ordinary citizens to effectively tell fact from fiction, and more.

Listen to Ask Theory Episode 32 here:

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Mikael Francisco 1:25

Hello Purple. Kamusta?

Purple Romero 1:29

Sa ngayon, katatapos lang ng ulan, so laging maganda ano yun, sign diba, pag kakatapos lang ng ulan

Mikael Francisco 1:37

Ah naulan din, nasan ka nga ulit?

Purple Romero1:40

Ah so i’m here now at Hongkong. I moved here in late 2019

Mikael Francisco 1:44

Wow. Actually kakaulan lang din dito e, so talagang, you know if you’re fortunate enough to be under shelter, kung meron tayong matutuluyan na safe, yes – the rain brings good news, or a good feeling. So speaking of good feelings, I have a great feeling about this podcast kasi we’re going to talk about something that I am really passionate about. But before that, tell us a bit about your background and your line of work. 

Purple Romero 2:12

So i’m a fact-checking journalist so that means I debunk disinformation and also misinformation. This is something I’ve been doing since 2013, but along the lines of, more within the ambit of academic work. So nagtuturo ako noon sa kolehiyo kung paano mag identify ng examples ng disinformation. And also how to verify, yung what we call the user generated content. Kasi around that time, that was the height of people…start of people submitting their videos, their photos whenever there’s breaking news. So as a journalist then, it was a part of the noble challenge to us to make sure that whatever we seek from the public, is actually accurate. For shows, scenes or developments that are authentic. 

Mikael Francisco 3:13

Okay

Purple Romero 3:14

So pinapasa ko yung sa mga estudyante ko dati na meron din namang pangarap na maging journalist. So I started doing that din, tapos I became a fact-checking journalist, na when AFP Agence France-Presse opened its fact-checking team sa Philippine Bureau nila, ao I was part of the pioneering team. During that time it was also I think at the height of the elections naman, so medyo may deluge, unfortunately disinformation tsaka misinformation

Mikael Francisco 3:44

Yeah

Purple Romero 3:46

And then after that I moved here in Hongkong, I now teach also fact-checking, as a teaching assistant naman sa the University of Hongkong Journalism and Media Study Center. 

Mikael Francisco 04:00

Ang ganda ng trabaho mo. Specifically, a lot of people are familiar with the work of a journalist syempre. And, parang naging assumption na, or expectation should I say na ang isang journalist ang isang mamamahayag ay nagbabalita lamang ng katotohanan, ay nagbabalita lamang ng mga verified facts. Backed with evidence. Backed by studies and research. Unfortunately sa panahon ngayon, sa pag open ng communication ng platforms of communication, sa lahat ng taong may kakayahan na gumawa ng content gumawa ng broadcast sa internet na magbigay ng kanilang mga opinyon, hindi lahat ng napupulot natin o nababasa natin ay katotohanan. Which leads me to my next question. We have a segment where we introduce our hypothetical, imaginary, invisible 7 year old child, at yung guest namin pinapaliwanag yung isang topic or yung kanyang trabaho or line of work in ways that the 7 year old child can understand. So I would like you to explain to our imaginary 7 year old child ano ba ang fake news?

Purple Romero 05:13

Okay. So to the 7 year old kid in front of me, i’ll simply tell you that fake news is lying. But what differentiates it from lying? When your mom or your dad or your friend catches you lying, you will apologize, right? You will say sorry. Because lying can harm or hurt others. The difference is with “fake news,” people who actually perpetuate and develop or create fake news, they don’t say sorry or they don’t apologize for any fraudulence or dubious content they’ve created and distributed. So bilang bata, alam mo yung tama sa mali, alam mo na ang pagsisinungaling ay nakakasakit, kaya hihingi ka ng kapatawaran. Tapos you will also do your best not to lie again, right? Sa fake news, walang ganon. Walang ganong klaseng realization. Walang ganong klaseng courage to admit that you actually erred or that you lied. So sana kung ano man yung courage na meron ka as a 7 year old to admit that you lied, sana madala mo yun hanggang paglaki. Na pag nahuli ka na o nagsisinungaling ka, tatanggapin mo na nagsinungaling ka, humingi ka ng kapatawaran, and then make a conscious effort na wag nang ulitin yung pagsisinungaling na yun. 

Mikael Francisco 06:35

So sa lahat ng mga nakikinig kung meron kayong kilalang 7 year old or any kids please let them listen to that part kasi ang ganda ng pagkaka explain kung ano ang fake news. And it really hits the bullseye, yung heart of why we do this, why we’re talking about fake news in this episode. Pero may tanong ako. San ba nanggagaling ang fake news and nabanggit mo na ang mga nagkakakalat ng fake news hindi sila nag so sorry. So bakit nag e-exist ang fake news in the first place?

Purple Romero 07:03

Okay so actually mahaba ang history ng fake news. It started even pa nung panahon ng row or discord between Octavian tsaka si Marc Antony sa Rome. So Octavian then, he was trying to usurp Marc Antony so what he did was he started to create slogans that can be printed on coins, which painted Marc Antony in a bad light. So Marc Antony then was in an affair with Cleopatra. Tapos he accused Marc Antony of kowtowing to Cleopatra and then of being a womanizer, of not being faithful to the, to the value system of Romans. And then that worked. So actually ang sinasabi nila, si Octavian yung unang unang gumawa ng mga slogans na pwede mong i tweet nung panahon na yun

Mikael Francisco 07:54

Wow.

Purple Romero 07:54

Pero hindi tweet, nilagay lang nya sa mga barya. Ayun and then people actually believed it. Pero bibigay ko rin muna sa ano, lalagay ko sa context ng science naman, when did it start. Ano, nung 1830s, the New York Sun, ano sya, it’s a newspaper. They came up with a story on the great moon creatures that you can see on the moon. Pero it was later on called as the great moon hoax kasi hindi sya totoo. Hindi totoo na meron mga winged creatures sa moon. Wala tayong evidence. Pero, for the Sun noon, it was supposed to be a satire. Pero mga readers noon, they didn’t take it as one. So medyo nagging problematic siya. Tapos aside from that. Ito this will be more relevant to us now kasi nung 1980s naman, nagkaron ng project yung Soviet Union yung KGB they called the project Project Infection, and what they did was they planted this supposed news article in a pro-Soviet Union newspaper in India called The Patriot that America or Fort Dietrich to be particular, in Maryland, they created a bio-weapon, and that bio-weapon is called the HIV. 

Mikael Francisco 09:17

Yikes.

Purple Romero 09:18

Di ginawa nila yun tapos, when the AIDS you know, when the cases increased, it was very easy for them, the KGB, to refer back to that supposed news report that they planted it in The Patriot, in the newspaper in India. And they were saying, look, to legitimize our allegations, look at this. There was even a news report about it. 

Mikael Francisco 09:42

Grabe.

Purple Romero 09:43

So dun siya nagsimula. And I think it’s a story that really sounds so familiar right now. 

Mikael Francisco 09:48

Yes. Actually

Purple Romero 09:50

Diba. Kasi yung COVID 19 yung, meron namang mga accusations again. Like merong mga, one narrative tells us na ginawa din yan sa Fort Dietrich. Mga narrative tells us it’s actually a bio-weapon naman from Wuhan. So yun lang. Nag ilang decades lang ang lumipas, pero kita mo pareho dun yung yung parang strategy. Yung takbo ng story. 

Mikael Francisco 10:16

Actually yang… Yang dahil sa kwento mo, may naalala ako. Medyo hindi naman ganon ka harmful pero I think medyo sapul din sa kwento mo. So I think about half a century ago, I’m not sure kung ano yung exact year. The BBC aired a special telecast on April Fools’ Day. So long story short, dun sa brief na parang segment na yun. Pinakita nila na may mga nagha harvest ng pasta, ng spaghetti pasta sa puno. And they actually called it spaghetti trees. 

Purple Romero 10:49

Okay

Mikael Francisco 10:50

As an April Fools’ joke. So para akala nila harmless joke lang. Eh ang nangyari nyan, ang daming tumawag sa kanila. Hindi para i debunk yung spaghetti trees kung di, and some context kasi at the time, hindi pa ganon ka well known sa public kung paano ba nagagawa ang spaghetti or ang pasta. Ang daming nagtanong at tumawag sa kanila para manghingi ng seeds. 

Purple Romero 11:13

Oh no

Mikael Francisco 11:14

Or malaman pano makakapagtanim ng kanilang sariling spaghetti tree. So that’s uh, I think that’s a milder example of fake news whether intentional or unintentional. But speaking of intent and not to get ahead of ourselves here. But I want to clarify this. Kasi andami kong nababasa na some call it misinformation, yung iba naman ang tawag disinformation, ano ba ang difference ng misinformation tsaka disinformation? 

Purple Romero 11:44

Okay. So thank you for asking that. Kasi yung sa misinformation tsaka disinformation, we have to be very clear saan pumapasok yung mga content na we share or we create. Dun sa First Draft…First Draft is a fact checking org, tapos si Claire Wardle the one who founded it, she described or defined misinformation as something that we share not because you want to harm others, but actually because we wanted to protect them in one way or another. So kunwari mag sha share ka ng tingin mo ito yung cure sa COVID 19. Hindi naman dahil sa gusto mong makasakit diba. Parang ano lang gusto ko lang na mapag ano din alert, ma-alert itong mga mahal ko sa buhay so share ka ganyan. Hindi mo alam, yung nga ang hindi mo alam hindi pala yun yung totoo. Disinformation naman there’s really the intent to deceive because of political reasons, or pwede rin talagang it’s under the propaganda umbrella. But ultimately, what differentiates it from misinformation is the intent to harm. So we now also use these terms, misinformation and disinformation and not what we more commonly call as fake news, kasi fake news naman is being used by some leaders of some states, to call anything that…that any content, any statement, any opinion or commentary that does not agree with what they say or what they do as fake news, na hindi naman. Kasi opposition isn’t really fake news. It’s just your right to disagree. 

Mikael Francisco 13:32

Yes

Purple Romero 13:33

Yes so it’s very important na we distinguish one from the other. 

Mikael Francisco 13:37

So actually, that that brings me to another question. Na curious lang ako. Do you think we should be moving away from using the term fake news? Why or why not?

Purple Romero 13:45

We should be using either misinformation or disinformation instead to describe the content or the phenomena itself. Kasi yung fake news, it’s being twisted. 

Mikael Francisco 13:57

Oo. Co opted, ano?

Purple Romero 13:59

Misconstrued

Mikael Francisco 14:00

Yes. 

Purple Romero 14:01

Sinasadya ding talaga sya minsan para yun na nga sabihan yung mga ibang groups or ibang citizens na nag di disagree sayo o that’s fake news when di naman talaga sya fake news it’s just another view. 

Mikael Francisco 14:15

Oo nga e

Purple Romero 14:16

Which diverges from your own views. And in a healthy environment, para sa information, para sa discourse that’s something that we should actually allow and even cultivate. The diversity of opinions. And when you when we use fake news, that kind of diversity, it is stymied and it is discouraged. So sana wag napo nating gamitin yung word na fake news. And para din sa mga people who are studying this. People who are trying to to train din sa fact checking, so that’s one thing that, one of the most fundamental things that we should remember that to call it disinformation or misinformation instead of fake news. 

Mikael Francisco 14:59

Yeah I agree. Actually kaya ko rin tinanong sayo yang yung how do you define fake news, kasi nabasa ko na yan before na we should start parang not using the term fake news. Kasi nga it’s been used by a lot of leaders na parang tinatawag na fake news network. Or yung mga diba. Naging insulto nalang sya e. Instead of actually meaning what it’s supposed to mean, yun nga like you said, like you explained, it’s it’s become like the default, the go-to insult for anyone karamihan in power, na merong narinig na coverage news coverage or news article na hindi nag a agree sa gusto nilang marinig or mangyari. So matic

Purple Romero 15:42

Mm mm matic

Mikael Francisco 15:43

Fake news network yang mga yan, oo. Diba. So I definitely agree. And yung usage specifically of misinformation vs disinformation, na hi highlight yung importante dyan which is intent. 

Purple Romero 15:55

Yes.

Mikael Francisco 15:56

Pero, naalala ko tuloy, nung last year. During the early months of covid, ang daming mga myth or wrong, unproven, minsan imbento lang talaga, na health advice. I think two that stand out are, yung isa from a former public official who is actually now running for Senate, when he said in a broadcast dito sa Philippines. When he said in a broadcast na saging daw ay nakaka prevent ng COVID 19. Which if course there is no direct evidence na na the bananas have this miracle property but that same day…that same day…and I am not kidding, naubos ang mga saging sa grocery, sa palengke because namalengke ako that same day e so 

Purple Romero 16:48

Tapos wala

Mikael Francisco 16:49

Wala. And I went to 3 different places tapos yung nga. And it it doesn’t, alam nyo yung hindi normal na nangyayari yun e. So ibig sabihin non, that claim,  meron siyang naging direct impact or effect dun sa mga nakarinig. And then yung 2nd is from, well…from a higher ranking official in the Philippines, na nagsabi na ang pagmumumog daw ng maligamgam na tubig ay nakaka prevent ng infection ng coronavirus. And he…he actually got this this health advice (quote unquote), from an article that he read online quoting an expert in Hong Kong. So ang ginawa ko

Purple Romero 17:27

Okay

Mikael Francisco 17:28

Actually kasi sobrang hindi rin ako makapaniwala e, parang, bakit kung magmumumog lang tayo ng maligamgam na tubig, e di wala na tayong problema. Ganong lang bang kadali yun? Hindi ako makapaniwala e. So ang ginawa ko, inemail ko yung prof 

Purple Romero 17:38

Okay

Mikael Francisco 17:39

Inemail ko talaga sya. Hinanap ko yung email address nya, and ang iksi nung sinabi nya sa akin. Ang sabi nya that’s fake, especially the throat part. 

Purple Romero 17:47

Okay

Mikael Francisco 17:48

So hindi nya talaga sinabi yun. So nakwento ko yung dalawang naalala kong mga instances ng maling impormasyon. Dahil gusto kong itanong sayo, bakit nga ba parang sa lahat ng mga fake or false information, parang ang dami dami na related to science. Lalong lalo na yung health and medicine. Bakit ganon.

Purple Romero 18:08

Meron kasing something na unique dun sa information that’s about science and health. Nagkakaroon ng knowledge gap. So yun yung tawag namin kapag for example, sa covid, because we’re still trying to learn what can help us cure it, or mitigate its effects, we don’t have the immediate answers. So may knowledge gap. Tapos ang gap na yun, dyan lumalabas yung kagaya ng sinabi mo, na merong o sabi ni ganito ganyan, or kaya narinig ko or nabasa ko na eto pag kinain mo, ininom mo or ginawa mo, it will help cure COVID 19. So, dangerous yung gap na yun. Kaya pag nangyayari yan,dapat din sa mga tao na merong audience tapos sa mga tao na nasa power, they should be responsible din sana para sabihin na, “No we don’t have any information yet. But the experts, the the medical experts, the doctors, are already doing their best to come up with say, let’s say a vaccine,” ganon. So kailangan mong sabihin na may proseso nang nagaganap, inu undertake, para talaga i-address yung mga health concerns like yung COVID 19. So yun yung isang dahilan bakit biglang meron may deluge ng disinformation. Lalo kapag yung dami niya tapos yung bilis nya naapektuhan sya nung gap na yun. Kasi wala pang any information naamn na available para yung tao ma appease na actually there’s there’s a cure or there are things we can do para to prevent infection. Kaya yun nagkakaroon ng mga kung ano ano. Yun nga lang, ang hirap kasi, lahat ngayon may platform na. So 

Mikael Francisco 19:57

Oo

Purple Romero 19:58

Sa halip na yung yung warning, or yung definitive or yung talagang reliable information manggagaling sa mga experts, anyone can just talk about it. And meron din kasi tayong tinatawag na illusory effect, pinag aaralan ng mga psychologists naman to. Kasi why do people believe in what they see sa social media naman, for one, na medyo hotbed ng disinformation. Actually hindi medyo. Hotbed talaga. 

Mikael Francisco 20:24

Oo

Purple Romero 20:27

Kasi meron kapag kunwari, you see someone you trust. Or someone who you have personal relationships with sa facebook, posting something kahit na hindi ka sigurado kung totoo ba ito o hindi. The illusory effect will tell you ah because I trust this person, baka naman whatever he posts is also trustworthy. So may ganong dangers. Ang isa pang ano dun explanation din, bakit nangyayari yun, unang una kasi, I also want to dispel the common notion. At ito, well, siguro mamaya magandang i-elaborate pero

Mikael Francisco 21:03

Oo

Purple Romero 21:04

Kapag may mga tao na nasha-share ng mga bagay na parang, o di naman yan totoo, wag natin kaagad i-judge yung tao. Kasi yung minds natin, may explanation siya bakit tayo naniniwala sa mga dubious content. The way misinformation and disinformation is crafted, yung language niya, it was designed for us to believe in it easily. Kasi yung novelty, meron syang effects at ito pinag aralan ng ano mga researchers din sa cognitive na ano related research, na nagiinduce sya…nag i induce sya ng dopamine. So reward

Mikael Francisco 21:46

Oh.

Purple Romero 21:47

Pathway, yun. So parang o may bago ang sarap sa pakiramdam diba na parang may bagong kaalaman, tapos so yun yung isa. And then the other explanation is…and this came naman from Nieman Lab, napaka exhaustive ng report nila dito. Yung pag nakakabasa naman tayo ng aside from novel, combo-han mo pa ng ano, ng parang emotional yung approach nya, it makes you feel something. Nag sti stimulate siya kaagad nung sa memories mo, yung it’s either, diba sa ating brain sa hippocampus, tapos amygdala, mas madaling ma retain sa parang longer term memories mo, yun mga bagay na may emotional na konteksto or emotional na approach. 

Mikael Francisco 22:32

Ah, okay.

Purple Romero 22:33

So when you when you see examples of misinformation and disinformation, parang laging kunwari, namatay si ganito, kahit hindi mo naman nga alam kung totoo ba. Or, wag uminom ng ganito dahil nakakaparalisa or whatever. So laging it induces fear, matatakot ka so emotion yun diba so hala isha share mo nalang kaagad. O meron daw nakitang satellite something na Pilipinas ang basta mamaya isha share ko ito pero…ano may picture daw ng satellite ng Pilipinas, parang you feel proud naman.

Mikael Francisco 23:08

Right.

Purple Romero 23:09

So sha share mo pa rin kahit hindi ka sigurado or hindi ka 100% na sure ito ba talaga yung satellite ng inano ng mga scientist natin sa Pilipinas. So ayun so alam mo yun, emotional kasi yung atake nila, kaya nare retain natin tapos shina share din kaagad natin. So very strategic sya. 

Mikael Francisco 23:26

Grabe

Purple Romero 23:27

Which is very ?. Oo. Hindi hindi sya matter ng…madali kasi mag dichotomize e

Mikael Francisco 23:31

Yeah

Purple Romero 23:32

Na parang diba parang o ito ang…sorry sorry talaga. I don’t like this term, kasi hindi rin ako naniniwala sa sabi ng mga tao na bobo. Walang bobong tao

Mikael Francisco 23:40

Oo nga

Purple Romero 23:41

It’s just that very…it’s very strategic the way they, they craft and design and write yung mga examples ng disinformation and misinformation. Parang alam nila pano, pano i ti tick yung brains natin. 

Mikael Francisco  23:55

Totoo yan. Grabe. And ano e, it’s not…kung halimbawa ako, dati nakapag share ako ng fake na trailer. Ito nga ang babaw nito e. Nakapag share ako ng fake na trailer for a Marvel movie. So tuwang tuwa ako kasi, I mean, di ako nung back back then, di naman ako nagdi discern masyado ng ano e. Parang ako this is entertainment, oy ang cool nitong trailer na ito, shinare ko. So akala ko talaga yun yung trailer for that movie hanggang may friend ako na nagsabing fake naman yan e. Tingnan mo nga inedit o. Tapos napahiya ako kasi parang ano ba yan, nagkalat pa ako ng ka-peke-an. Parang feeling ko nauto ako.So i’m sharing this kasi para to add to your point na yun nga, wala namang bobo and let’s not assume na masaya sila na mag share ng fake. Kasi when they find out na hindi rin naman totoo, syempre mahihiya din sila. Lalo na kung ang intention nila ay makatulong or makapag save ng buhay. Sino ba naman ang gustong…sino ba naman ang may intention na mag save ng buhay tapos gusto mag share ng peke? Diba wala naman?

Purple Romero 24:57

Exactly

Mikael Francisco 24:57

So they probably feel as bad as you na nabasa mo yung fake na information na yun, they probably feel as bad na fake yung shinare nila when they find out. 

Purple Romero 25:06

Totoo. Kaya ayun nga, wag natin kaagad sila i-label na yun you’re stupid or 

Mikael Francisco 25:13

Uto uto ganyan

Purple Romero 25:16

Kasi, oo oo. Kasi even us, actually, i admit natin or hindi, we fall for one fabricated content. Kahit once 

Mikael Francisco 25:22

At some point

Purple Romero 25:23

Sa buhay natin. At some point in our lives. One thing why people are also more keen on embracing something that’s misleading or or fabricated, is because people also judge them for it. Tapos yung cognitive reason paninindigan na lang diba. Parang e ano pala e di paninindigan ko nalang ito. 

Mikael Francisco 25:46

Oo nga tama ka. And yun nga e, it’s easier said than done. Yung a wag tayong maniwala sa fake news, or sa misinformation or sa disinformation or kung ano mang term ang gamit currently ng nakikinig ngayon. Wag tayong maniwala dyan. Ang dali daling sabihin e. Pero personally, as as someone who does this for a living, ano ano ba yung tools and skills na ginagamit mo to debunk misinformation and disinformation? 

Purple Romero 26:11

Okay. So sa fact checking, there are a lot of tools. There’s a plethora of online tools that we can use. But the most important thing that we need to have, or to instill within us, is the fact-checking mindset. So when you see something, it’s okay kung may parade ng question marks sa utak mo. 

Mikael Francisco 26:33

Oo

Purple Romero 26:34

Okay yan kung nagpa party party pa yung mga question marks sa utak mo. Okay yan. So one, ang facebook din kasi and twitter diba, hindi mo naman mababasa yung content obviously. The width, the interface, at least yung design nila kita mo lang headline

Mikael Francisco 26:50

Yes

Purple Romero 26:51

So i click mo lang sya. Tama din yung mga campaigns diba na parang click before you share. Kasi heading lang sya e. Tapos even some headlines, clickbait sya. So kahit mismo yung ibang totoong news orgs, clickbait yung pagkakasulat so parang misleading din. So wag tayong mag rely lang sa headlines. So ayun diba nagsasayaw na yung mga question marks 

Mikael Francisco 27:13

Oo

Purple Romero 27:14

Sa utak mo. So wag mong…unang tanong dyan, why would I believe this headline? Kailangan mong basahin para masagot yung sarili mong tanong. Tapos there are social media posts which use a certain photo but the context is very different. Tapos kunwari, ayan may mga lalo na yung yun nga may mga disasters na nangyayari. Sabihin nila, o ito kita mo, may videos or photos showing yung mga cars na hirap na hirap na maka maka pull through sa floodwaters or people drowning mga ganon

Mikael Francisco 27:52

Yeah

Purple Romero 27:53

So yung image hindi nag ma match. Kasi pag nag reverse image search ka, makikita mo yung results, pwede pala yung ah kunwari, larawan or yung video ng ulan, hindi sya ngayon. Nangyari siya nung 2013 pa. And something you can also do with videos, gagawin mo lang, take a screenshot, tapos upload mo ulit, google reverse image search, tapos makikita mo ulit yung mga possible previous posts. Meron din tayong tool na tinatawag na InVid. Sa InVid naman it’s actually more comprehensive. Kasi another set of tools naman to check or verify yung photo kung ano siya, if it was edited or not, ay tinatawag na, we call that tool is photoforensics. Pero ito medyo sophisticated nga lang medyo sophisticated na yung skillset na kailangan dito oo. Pero ang maganda sa InVid you can explore it. Madaming madaming tools na pwede mong matutunan na magamit. Pero kung sisimula ka, actually ito fundamental ito. Very basic at matutulungan ka na kaagad, simpleng reverse image search lang. Para hindi ka rin magpapanic. Tapos yung mga mahal mo rin sa buhay hindi magpa-panic kasi sabihin mo na uy grabe na pala yung taas ng baha sa ganito, tapos yun pala Ondoy period pa yun di naman yung ulan kanina. And then aside from that, yung sa Google Map naman tsaka Google Earth for Geolocation. 

Mikael Francisco 29:16

Okay

Purple Romero 29:17

Yung pag binuksan mo sya tapos gusto mo i check san ba talaga ito nangyari, so anong itsura ng buildings dito, nung kalye na to, ano yung mga landmarks dito. Merong street view yan. So masaya din syang paglaruan actually. Tapos ang maganda pa dun dun sa Google Map, meron syang mga kasamang Google images tapos pwede mo mahanap saang year ito nag ito nag appear itong klaseng design na ito or yung structure na ito. Anong itsura nya years before. So pwedeng i scroll back mo na parang 2012 ganito sya and then 2021 ito na pala sya. Tapos pero again dun sa kelangan ko lang itong sabihin kasi yun nga I work here in Hong Kong na. Sa mainland China kasi pag may mga examples ng ganito, things we have to debunk, wala duong Google map or hindi hindi nakukuha ng Google map

Mikael Francisco 30:11

Okay

Purple Romero 30:12

Ng Google Earth. Pero sa Google map, meron silang sarili nilang counterpart. So we call it Gao De or a map. So parang ganun din sya pwede mongi check kasi meron kaming mga…last last year, an example is at the height of the pandemic, parang there was this misinfor…disinformation, na some stores in Shanghai were already closing down and the economy has been badly hit or affected by the pandemic. Tapos nung chineck namin sa Gao De map, hindi naman para sa Shanghai. Ang laki laki ng mainland China. 

Mikael Francisco 30:46

Okay

Purple Romero 30:47

So sa ibang parte sya ng mainland China, itong mga nag close down na stores ganon. So Alam mo yun, maano mo rin na kasi yun nga nga. Ang ang target talaga nya, ang gagawin nya sayo is either papa panic ka nya, may alarm sto stoke siya ng alarm  ganon para maniwala ka. So maganda rin dibang tingnan muna natin bago ka bago mag panic. 

Mikael Francisco 32:07

Oo

Purple Romero 32:08

Ano ba may basehan ba talaga ito bago ako matakot. Bago ako mag-panic buying ng banana right? Ng example mo kanina diba. 

Mikael Francisco 31:16

Oo

Purple Romero 31:17

May basehan ba talaga to? Kaya ito yung mga simpleng paraan and itong simpleng paraan na to, tandaan mo, tandaan nating lahat, na yung mga paraan na ito ay tutulong din sayo masagot yung mga sarili mong tanong. 

Mikael Francisco 31:30

Sa experience mo, as you know, a professional fact-checker, ang cool talaga e no, fact checking journalist. I’m sure napakaram – lalo siguro just from the past year alone, andami na, but throughout your career, what were some of the most noteworthy experiences that you’ve had in dealing with all of this misinformation and disinformation. Can you tell us a bit about yung mga pinaka memorable? 

Purple Romero 31:55

Isa sa mga pinaka memorable, we opened this conversation diba sabi ko nga kakatapos lang ng ulan. 

Mikael Francisco 32:00

Oo

Purple Romero 32:01

Kasi one of the first things that I fact-checked nun sa AFP was a claim that seven cities, if i’m not mistaken, will be underwater in a certain year. Tapos e syempre pag tiningnan mo kasi sya, given the fact that we’re very vulnerable to to the impacts of climate change, parang may plausibility na ganon. Again. So isa pa din syang strategy e. Hindi naman sya totally fantastical or hyperbole na ayun nga hindi naman kapani paniwala. What they do is like, they make it sound possible. So dahil nga dahil nga vulnerable ngayon yung Pilipinas, so baka yun baka nga naman totoo. 

Mikael Francisco 32:38

Oo baka pwede

Purple Romero 32:39

Baka pwede. So very strategic yung pagkakagawa. Ngayon yung yung tiningnan namin sya, meron syang ci nite pang mga sources. So meron ding tawag dyan e na parang…tapos yung iba din kasi ginagawa nila, pag gumagawa sila ng disinformation, yung ang elaborate ng pagkaka explain. 

Mikael Francisco 32:57

Oo

Purple Romero 32:58

Na parang totoo sya. So parang what we call, we call that motivated reasoning. Na parang, you use whatever yung knowledge mo, or or yung galing mo sa pagsasalita sa pagsusulat…yung dexterity mo, para makapanloko. To make the panloloko look so convincing. 

Mikael Francisco 33:16

Wow okay

Purple Romero 33:17

Ayun so para din yun, para meron pa silang mga cinite na studies, ganon. So parang ano maniniwala ka nga. Pero ang ginawa namin, binasa lang naman namin yung study dun sa cinite nya. And then yung study na yun, sa bandang footnotes nakalagay dun, dito na namin nakuha yung impormasyon. Tas nung binasa namin yung footnote, wala namang sinasabing ganon. 

Mikael Francisco 33: 36

Oo

Purple Romero 33:37

Ayun so ano lang sya..meron din isa lang kasing parang tinatawag na na guide, pag sa disinformation, yung isang parte sinasabi na motivated reasoning. Ine-elaborate nila yung panloloko nila. So angisa namang parte ng pagbasa dun sa ito nga sa phenomena na ito sa problema na to, tinatawag na classical reasoning. So sa researchers an ano, ang come up nitong parang guide na to

Mikael Francisco 34:03

Okay

Purple Romero 34:04

Wag kang tamarin na gamitin yung kakayahang mong mag analisa. Kasi, so it’s either hindi naman dahil sa again ,the term na ayaw natin na hindi din natin dapat talagadin gamitin, ah yung bobo, hindi sa bobo ka. Nagkataon lang tinamad ka 

Mikael Francisco 34:23

Oo

Purple Romero 34:24

So, pag ganon, dun na may nagsabi na oh yung 7 cities daw. E pano na kung taga Malabon ka di tapos nakita mo yung Malabon kasama dun

Mikael Francisco 34:32

Naku 

Purple Romero 34:33

So basahin mo lang. Tapos pag sinabi nila may study, nakalagay din naman dun kung ano yung pangalan, simpleng Google lang yan. Tapos basahin mo yung mismong study. Tapos sa baba nun may mga sources, i check mo lang din, ayun. Isa lang syang proseso na parang if they’re tiring you out, if those who who come up with these misleading content, if they try to tire you out, wag ka papatalo. Oo wag ka papatalo like kala nyo mapapagod ako kaagad. Kala nyo tatamarin ako a. Hindi. Ayun kaya ko pong magkalkal ng onti kaya pa ng connection ko ng internet connection ko

Mikael Francisco 35:13

Na magbasa oo

Purple Romero 35:15

So so ganon sya. Tapos aside from that, na mention ko yung kanina yung sa satellite. Kasi meron akong finact check na picture sya actually ng Tiangong 1, yung sa China? Ayun pero ang sabi nila dun sa facebook post is actually yung Diwata 1, na hindi 

Mikael Francisco 35:31

Naku po. Ang layo naman sorry

Purple Romero 35:33

Ang layo. Ang layo diba? Ayun tapos e di simple lang yun. Inupload ko lang yung photo, lumabas ano itsura ng Diwata 1, kinompare tapos lumabas din na o ito pala ay hindi naman si Diwata 1, 

Mikael Francisco 35:45

Oo napaka…oo

Purple Romero 35:46

Simpleng simple lang. Ayun tapos, it’s actually saddening. Kasi parang na u undermine mo yung galing nung pagkakagawa nung Diwata 1. Tsaka yung what happened. In the sense na pwede mo naman ipakita yung how it really looked like. Kung ano mismo yung Diwata 1. Why do you have to use another photo? At sadly, it was really disinformation kasi sinabi nila ito satellite na ito, lumabas sya ng panahon ni Presidente Duterte. Na hindi rin totoo kasi April 2016 yung Diwata 1. At nung April 2016, hindi pa sya yung nakaupo nun. So very saddening sya kasi para sa ating mga pinoy, this is something we should be proud of, itong Diwata 1. Pero na na u-undermine sya, tapos hindi natin ma..parang, mai-celebrate talaga ng ano kasi ibang picture pa yung nilagay mo, at yun ay something na sinadya pa. The fact na nalagay mo yung ah okay ito yung lumabas ng panahon ng termino ng presidente na nakaupo ngayon. Alam mo na na there’s the intent to mislead. 

Mikael Francisco 36:53

Yes, oo

Purple Romero 36:55

Yes. So bilang fact-checker parang ang sa akin sana pagdating sa mga ganitong, actually sa lahat ng bagay sana, wag nating…wag nating balutan nang mga ng kulay ng politika kasi pinaghirapan natin yan e. 

Mikael Francisco 37:11

Totoo

Purple Romero 37:13

Mga scientist natin na underpaid pa. 

Mikael Francisco 37:16

Yeah exactly

Purple Romero 37:19

Oo. Tapos aside from that, ito dito na sa Hongkong, may finact check din na ano. Lumabas siya sa ibang news article sa Pilipinas. They cited a study daw na nagsasabi na yung isang medicine na parang Chinese herbs, ay cure sa COVID 19. 

Mikael Francisco 37:37

Ay nako okay. 

Purple Romero 37:38

Na hindi naman kasi ito ay yun din. You just really have to read the the journal. Kung san nanggaling yung yung study. Kasi yung journal na pinagkuhanan nila…actually, hindi sya hindi sya yung tipong sila yung nape peer review mismo. Repository lang sila ng mga studies. Pero walang klaseng na yun yung proseso na they actually look at the study, tapos they they verify..wala. Repository lang sila so 

Mikael Francisco 38:06

Ano ba ang ibig sabihin ng peer reviewed? 

Purple Romero 38:08

Well pag peer reviewed sya, ibig sabihin vetted sya. Ganon lang sya. Parang nag thesis tayo. Alam mo yung thesis na diba de-defend mo yan. Tapos kelangan maipaliwanag mo pano mo sya ginawa. Ano yung method mo. Ano yung hypothesis mo. Tapos pag nakapasa ka, ibig sabihin nun, reliable yung thesis mo. HIndi ka lang nag ano, hindi ka lang nagluluto ng canton, pansit canton habang ginagawa yung thesis 

Mikael Francisco38:31

Instant noodles lang

Purple Romero 38:32

Oo. So ganon lang yun. Ganon lang sya kasimple. Pag peer reviewed, vetted yung nakalagay dun. May mga tumingin na set of eyes, independent, 3rd party. Talagang tiningnan na a okay so ito yung study nya, yung findings nila ay reliable, yung methodology nila. So kaya mahalaga. So pag nagbabasa din tayo ng yun na nga, isa pa din yun e, the the appearance of na parang o mukha syang legit ah kasi galing sya sa isang 

Mikael Francisco 38:58

Sa study, sa journal 

Purple Romero 38:59

Oo journal ganyan. Pero tingnan mo rin. Ano ba yung nature nung ano na yun website na yun. Kasi meron naman talagang yun nga, repository ka lang, archive ka lang ng mga studies pero hindi ka naman nag participate dun sa vetting process. So one, tas yun, ano din yung sinasabi ng mismong study? Kasi ano sya, pag binasa mo yung study, hindi sya curative, therapeutic lang. 

Mikael Francisco 39:20

Yes, And there’s a big difference. 

Purple Romero 39:23

Tanungin din natin ano bang ibig sabihin nun. 

Mikael Francisco 39:25

Oo

Purple Romero 39:26

Kung therapeutic lang sya, hindi sya curative diba, hindi talaga sya ibig sabihin nakapag pagaling. So lumabas siya sa ibang news or sa Pilipinas finact check dito sa Hongkong kasi nga COVID 19 tapos Chinese herbs yung sinasabi na nakakapagpagaling. Kaya yun. So minsan ano din yan, it’s very tricky pero again wag tayong mapapagod kung pinapagod tayo, wag tayong..that one step. Wag nating hayaan na maloko nila tayo just because they took a step further. Tayo din. Isang hakbang pa basahin natin yung ano. Check natin yung background kung saan nakalagay yung study. Tas yung isa ito, natuwa ako dito din sa Hongkong kasi yun nga yung sa sinasabi nila na lumabas kasi yung video ng mga tycoonauts, yung mga Chinese Astronaut. 

Mikael Francisco 40:09

Yes, oo.

Purple Romero 40:10

Tapos nakatayo sila dun sa loob ng kanilang module, yung Kan Hei Wan module. Tapos ano daw, may mga nag-post na o tingnan nyo hindi totoo yan kasi nakakatayo sila dapat lumulutang lutang ka 

Mikael Francisco 40:23

Okay

Purple Romero 40:26

Ayun, Tapos ang ano naman nun, meron silang foot restraint na tinatawag actually pag tiningnan mo yung ibang videos before dun sa video na yun, kita mo naka foot restraint sila para ano hindi sila lumutang. Tapos yung foot restraint, ginagamit din naman ng ibang astronauts, ng NASA, ng cosmonauts. Ayun so, pero ang maganda dun kasi, maiintindihan mo na microgravity, tapos why do people float in space, ganyan. Or, sa loob mismo. Yung mismong pagpunta sa space anong part na ng ng atmosphere na nagsasabing nasa orbit ka na. So masaya sya. Masaya siyang gawin kasi it will inspire you to learn more about how the world works. About how the universe works. So parang simpleng bagay na una muna, sa health mo. Tapos parang uy matututo ka bigla na ito pala ang ibig sabihin ng curative sa therapeutic. Tapos biglang lalabas ka na hanggang dun sa kalawakan. Ayun ganito pala sya, ano bakit bakit parang nag a appear na weightless yung mga tao ganon. Kaya ko na mention itong mga examples na ito, tingin ko ito yung mga kinds ng disinformation na yung lahat ng tao, pwede silang mag enjoy na matutunan pano i-debunk. Ayun. You should find it a really enjoyable process. Ang pag de-debunk. Ang pag ve verify. Ang sarap kaya non. Kasi tingnan nyo ha. Isa yung sa novelty diba? 

Mikael Francisco 41:50

Yeah

Purple Romero 41:51

Bakit ka nagsha share kaagad ng disinformation kasi it’s something new

Mikael Francisco 41:53

Yes

Purple Romero 41:54

Parang o naano yung dopamine mo. E why don;t you try na you find out something new na accurate? Na reliable. Diba masmasarap yung pakiramdam? 

Mikael Francisco 42:03

Oo

Purple Romero 42:04

So so kung enjoyment din lang, masaya din masaya din dito mag detective

Mikael Francisco 42:08

Totoo yan. Nag eenjoy din ako mag debunk ng ano e. Lalong lalo na pag nakakagigil yung yung alam mong fake lang dahil dahil may gustong kumita. Yun yung pinaka nakakagigil na na ano e

Purple Romero 42:19

Yun. Yun yun…yun nga. Actually yan ang mahirap kasi marami ang gumagawa dahil kumikita sila. Ngayon ginagawa nila yun kasi may mga kanya kanya silang dahilan. Pero sa atin naman, generally diba ayaw naman natin kumita sa panloloko. 

Mikael Francisco 42:37

Totoo

Purple Romero 42:38

Ayun. Di dun tayo alam mo. Di tayo kikita siguro well ako, well I do it ano as part of my profession and my mission. Pero alam nyo ba hindi lang ako pwedeng gumawa nito all over the world, maraming fact checking institutions na tinatayo. As in grabe

Mikael Francisco 42:51

Kasi ganyan kalaki na yung problema e

Purple Romero 42:52

Sa Asia. Oo sa Asia ang dami bigla. E san mo mas gusto sanang kumita. Dun sa gumagawa ka ng something deceiving or dun sa nandun ka sa part na nage-establish ka na how can people learn more about facts or about I mean yung sa data or pag understand or pag analyze na ng mga ng data or ng impormasyon. Ikaw may choice ka. Pwede ka naman din kumita dito tapos nakakapagturo ka pa. Nag e-enjoy ka rin. Ang saya nun diba na parang nalaman ko nga nung nag fact check kami nung ano, something I learned when I was in highschool tapos naalala ko bigla. Kasi we fact checked something tungkol sa radiation levels sa Fukushima. Ayun e tapos e nagkaron din kasi dito yung report na dito naman sa China yung isang nuclear…a tama, plant daw parang according to the CNN report na may part daw na parang may leak pero hindi naman sya na ano pa conclusive. 

Mikael Francisco 43:46

Okay

Purple Romero 43:47

Ayun so parang sa radiation levels lang may mga nag post na hala yung mga radiation level dito sa Hongkong tumaas pero pag tiningnan mo safe pa rin sya, at matatandaan mo actually may mga levels ng radiation na safe naman. Pag kumain ka nga ng saging…itong saging na ito bidang bida sa episode na to 

Mikael Francisco 44:00

Dito talaga oo nga sa episode na ito e

Purple Romero 44:02

Bidang bida sa usapan ng saging. Actually ang saging meron level may radiation din sya

Mikael Francisco 44:06

Oo

Purple Romero 44:08

Kasi ang potassium mga ganon. Pero safe sya. Alam mo yun hindi ka naman magkakaron ng di ka magiging radioactive na creature

Mikael Francisco 44:15

Exactly

Purple Romero 44:16

Dahil kumain ka lang ng saging. So alam mo na ang science is everywhere

Mikael Francisco 44:21

Oo. So ang dami nating napagusapan. Ang dami nating napagusapan na mga tools, tips, tricks, skills, pero kung pang karaniwang tao lang ako na na libangan ko lang mag browse sa Facebook or something, and wala akong access dito sa mga ganitong tools. Like immediately. Meron ka pa bang ibang masha- share na advice to be able to tell real news from fiction. 

Purple Romero 44:46

Bago pa naman kasi nagkaroon ng social media na kung saan dyan nakukuha ngayon karamihan talaga information, meron na tayong mga established institutions na talagang alam natin na they have their own processes and procedures to make sure that whatever information they put out are correct.

Mikael Francisco 45:04

Yeah

Purple Romero 45:05

So kapag may mga disasters kung ano mang sabihin ng kung anumang ahensya, ang nag aaral dun sa sa disaster na yun, di kung ano ang sabihin nila dun tayo dapat maniwala. Tapos yung sa news organizations din, although ito medyo mahirap kung may distrust 

Mikael Francisco 45:22

Yeah

Purple Romero 45:24

Ano sa mainstream media pero ano ba yung history natin. What is our personal history? Nung bata tayo, pag nag report kung sino man dyan sa sa balita sa TV, or nabasa mo sa…narinig mo sa radyo, nabasa mo sa sa dyaryo, pag nag report sila…naalala mo diba nung bata ka naniniwala ka naman? Kasi alam mo na ang mamamahayag, meron silang mga sarili nilang mga steps na inu-undertake para masigurado na whatever they report ay totoo at makakatulong sayo. Ayun so look back, sa sarili mong kasaysayan. Bakit ka naniniwala sa mga bagay noon. Sino ang mga pinapaniwalaan mo noon? Kahit na wala kang any means for example to do your own reverse image search, pero kailangan mong tanungin na bakit ako naniniwala dito when you see a certain post. Kaya ko lang ba gusto i share because it makes me feel good, or because nag cau-cause nga sya ng something na ano mang emosyon man yan. Sapat na ba yun para maniwala ako. So yung mga yung mga ganong klaseng tanong. Tapos kapag naman when you see someone…kasi sa algorithm din, social media kung ano yung mga lumalabas na mga pino-post ng mga kaibigan mo, kamag anak mo, more often than not pare pareho sila ng kung ano yung pino post mo. Try mo kaya na lumabas lang. Mag follow ka ng iba na iba naman yung sinasabi kasi mahirap makulong sa iisang

Mikael Francisco 46:51

Sa iisang

Purple Romero 46:52

Oo mundo lang na ito lang ang pare parehong sinasabi 

Mikael Francisco 46:56

Yung sinasabing echo chamber

Purple Romero 46:57

Exactly. Try mo lang mag follow ng iba para yung ibang lumabas na posts, magkaroon ka rin ng ibang sources of information. Wala naman kasing…actually sinasabi nga nila, kung ang algorithm was designed para tayo ay mag click lang ng mag click, but hindi mo i-game yung algorithm? Parang ganon. So magagawa mo siya by again, try to follow other other accounts na labas naman dun sa mga kaibigan mo, mga kamaganak mo ganon. And and it wouldn’t cost you anything

Mikael Francisco 47:28

That’s true

Purple Romero 47:29

I cli-click mo lang follow ganon. Tapos ngayon kasi ang divided natin

Mikael Francisco 47:35

Oo nga e

Purple Romero 47:36

Kahit na andaming impormasyon, which is ironic

Mikael Francisco 47:38

Yun nga e parang. It’s actually worse than I remember. Parang I I think i’m not alone in thinking na parang things have gotten worse? 

Purple Romero 47:48

Andami nating pwedeng kuhanan ng impormasyon, so dapat andami nating natututunan, tapos pero ito nga ang nangyayari. Tama ba or gugustiuhin ba natin na kung ano man yun lines ng division na to, ay mapalawig pa natin dahil sa mga shinare natin sa facebook account natin. When you do fact-checking, kami aminado kami na it wouldn’t change minds entirely and immediately. Pero ang lagi naming iniisip, at least may record tayo kung ano talaga yung facts

Mikael Francisco 48:20

Yung totoo

Purple Romero 48:21

Para pag nakita ito ng anak ng apo natin, meron silang reference. So sayo, yung mga post mo ngayon, isipin mo yung sarili mong kasaysayan diba. Pag yung apo mo anak mo or anuman some…someone na mahalaga sayo, pag tiningnan nya yung kasaysayan mo at nakita niya na hindi totoo yung mga nakalagay dun, diba yun yung maalala nya tungkol sayo. Na parang a si si lolo or si si lola ganyan or I don’t know tita or tito…isa ka sa mga – and this is not to naman na parang again, alam mo yun, everything is personal. So kung ano mang pinost mo, laging may ripple effects yan. So anong klaseng kasaysayan ang gusto mong magkaroon ka? 

Mikael Francisco 49:11

Ganda. Because you don’t know…ewan ko, biglang suddenly serious talk e pero you don’t know when your time is up, honestly. 

Purple Romero 49:19

Oo

Mikael Francisco 49:20

It…you don’t know how long you have on this planet. Do you want to spend the rest of your whatever time you have left spreading misinformation and misleading people, possibly causing people harm. Or do you want to spend it being the light in the darkness, telling the truth and paving the way for future generations to live a life based on evidence and truth. I think the choice is really easy. 

Purple Romero 49:44

Yeah

Mikael Francisco 49:45

It should be. 

Purple Romero 49:46

It should be easy

Mikael Francisco 49:47

Andami kong natutunan from from this and even though i’ve been checking facts as part of my job as a science journalist, I learned a lot from you and I really appreciate it. Kasi, you know, on this podcast when I talk to experts, laging na e-enhance yung kaalaman ko about things na minsan wala akong alam or things na akala ko alam ko na. So i hope na yung lahat ng nakikinig, na feeling na nila kayang kaya na nila mag discern ng mga maling impormasyon sa internet, na nakapakinig nito ay may napulot na natutunang bago sayo. Pero kung may tanong pa sila, or if they’re interested to know more about you and your work, ano ba yung pinaka magandang paraan para mag reach out sayo?

Purple Romero 50:29

Sa twitter, pwede nyo ako i follow sa @purpleromeropo

Mikael Francisco 50:34

Okay

Purple Romero 50:34

Ayun naka ano lang sya…naka closed account kasi isa sa isa sa mga ano lang pano ba downside ng pagiging fact-checking journalist yung iba pwede ka din nilang i attack, ad hominem ganon, a to discourage you from doing what you’re doing ganon, so bilang layer lang ng protection, 

Mikael Francisco 50:56

Oo wag nyo lang syang kulitin na mag fact check para sa inyo. Kawawa naman

Purple Romero 51:00

Oo

Mikael Francisco 51:01

Syempre baka biglang biglang ulanin ito ng DM maya ako pa sisihin wag naman ganon guys. 

Purple Romero 51:08

But kung gusto nyo lang humingi ng pano po ba ito, or san po ba pwedeng makita tong ganito, pwede ko kayong sendan naman ng ano kahit link kahit yung sa InVid or simpleng techniques or strategies willing naman ako dyan. So one link away pero basahin nyo ha. Wag tayong wag kayong pumayag na pagurin nila kayo

Mikael Francisco 51:26

Yeah

Purple Romero 51:27

Or anuhin na sige magpapatamad ka na wag wag wag. Wag nyong hayaan na gawin nila yun sayo. Defy defy

Mikael Francisco 51:34

Yes defy. And sabi nga kanina diba wag tayo sa echochamber. So break out of your echochamber, your social media echochamber, your twitter echochamber by following someone who can help…one of the many people who can help you find the truth. Ano ba yung advice mo sa mga tao na gustong pasukin yang ginagawa mo?

Purple Romero 51:55

Kanina napagusapan natin yung fact-checking mindset diba? Ang mga sayaw ng mga question marks sa utak mo. Pero maliban dun, dapat meron ka ring empathy, in the sense na wag mo kaagad ilagay sa kahon ang isang taong nag sha-share ng disinformation. Kasi nga kanina sabi ko may dangers yung pag sa pag dichotomize. Hindi ka nakaktulong pag nag fa fact check ka para lang ma stroke yung ego mo. Na oo tama ako mali ka. Hindi ganon. Ang sinabi kong empathy…bakit kaya nya shinare itong bagay na to? Sabihin mo na because napaka ano siya…naniniwala siya sa isang political figure, at hindi ka naniniwala sa political figure na yun. Nag di-disagree ka. Pero kapag tiningnan mo sya as an enemy kaagad, mawawala yung incentive na tumulong e. Ang role mo as a fact checker is tumulong sa iba na mahanap ang totoo, at malaman paano mahahanap ang katotohanan. Regardless kung naniniwala man sila sa mga, o hindi, sa mga bagay na pinapaniwalaan mo. So dapat pag pumasok ka dito, you you look at each social media account as something being managed or owned by an actual human being. Baka pag nag fact check ka ang goal mo ay matulungan sila hindi para ibaba sila. Ang goal natin lahat dito maitaas ang bawat isa sa pamamaraan na lahat alam kung paano ayun nga nga, makita ano ba ibig sabihin ng numero, statistics, data. Pano mahanap yung totoong image. Pano mahanap yung totoong video, ganon. So empowerment sya ganyan. Wag tayong mag contribute sa division just because we know how to fact check or we know some certain rules tapos gagamitin natin para…wag ganon. Tulungan…gamitin natin ito para din ma empower din yung iba yung nakararami. Kasi that’s our way of bridging the divide, kaya yun. And we are all capable of finding out the truth. Yung iba kailangan lang ng konting paniniwala lang sa kanila. So be that person. Tell them, you know what dude, I actually believe in your capacity to learn what is true and what is not. And I can help you do it. Ayun, so why not we try together. So yun yung iiwan ko na ano na pinaka guidelines sa mga gustong maging fact checker kasi that’s our, that’s our goal ultimately. Hindi yung para lang na o i’m right you’re wrong. Hindi ganon. 

Mikael Francisco 54:27

And naalala ko tuloy yung what I always tell people who ask me about writing about science. And I think nakwento ko din ata ito kay teach Sab last week na, simple lang naman yan e. Na you you know when you’re writing about science or you’re communicating science, you’re right to make your audience smarter not to make yourself look smarter. 

Purple Romero 54:47

Yes

Mikael Francisco 54:48

And same applies to fact checking. Same applies to writing, communicating…i-enhance mo ang kaalaman ng nagbabasa. Hindi para ipakita mo na masmagaling ka. At dahil napakaganda at napakagaling nitong kwentuhang nating to, sana ma-invite kita ulit at some point sa podcast na to. Sobrang nag enjoy ako and, and you know, anyone who knows me knows I am very passionate about checking…fact checking. And I appreciate that I learned a lot from you and I hope that all of our listeners learned a lot from you too. 

Purple Romero 55:18

Mika…sobrang salamat din kasi ayun nga nabukas ka din sa ganitong klaseng conversation tapos andami ko ding talagang natutunan sayo din. Kasi nung nakikinig ako sa questions mo, and the way, the way you actually craft or structure these questions, talagang kita ko din yung kagustuhan mo na gawin itong podcast para talagang yung mga tao din mas ma encourage may matuto about science and then different ways para maintindihan yung mga impormasyon na pumapasok. Tapos anytime just, just tell me anytime. Ano bibigyan natin ng oras ito. 

Mikael Francisco 55:52

Take care stay safe and keep in touch

Purple Romero 55:55

Yes. Ingat ingat ingat


The Ask Theory Podcast is available via these platforms — make sure to subscribe, as we’ll be releasing a new episode every week:

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Music: Hopeful Cinematic Ambient by bdProductions; My Mysterious Planet by Free Music

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Author: Mikael Angelo Francisco

Bitten by the science writing bug, Mikael has years of writing and editorial experience under his belt. As the editor-in-chief of FlipScience, Mikael has sworn to help make science more fun and interesting for geeky readers and casual audiences alike.